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	<title>Comments on: Women</title>
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	<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/</link>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jackalopekid</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-554</link>
		<dc:creator>jackalopekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>thats a good in-depth answer. thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thats a good in-depth answer. thanks</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jackalopekid</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator>jackalopekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>again true dat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>again true dat</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jackalopekid</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-552</link>
		<dc:creator>jackalopekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>true</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>true</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jackalopekid</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-551</link>
		<dc:creator>jackalopekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>yeah me too</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah me too</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jackalopekid</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-550</link>
		<dc:creator>jackalopekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>will do. thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>will do. thanks</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jackalopekid</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-549</link>
		<dc:creator>jackalopekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>very true. not a big fan either but she holds my attention. i went for delirious?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very true. not a big fan either but she holds my attention. i went for delirious?</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Bob Waters</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-548</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. Bob Waters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 02:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jackalopekid.com/?p=267#comment-548</guid>
		<description>The problem is that it&#039;s not just a can of worms. It&#039;s Pandora&#039;s box. If you exclude verbal inspiration and decide that some things in the Bible are merely human opinions, then literally everything is up for grabs. Since liteally anything could theoretically be one of those purely human things, nothing in the Bible has any authority unless I want it to. That&#039;s exactly how the ELCA got into the mess it&#039;s in. Once you take that step, there is simply no authority in the Church and no inherent content to the Faith.

Now, this is not to say that there are not some things which the Bible itself makes clear are culturally conditioned. Contrary to the argument we often hear, it nowhere endorses slavery; it merely regulates it- and with Paul&#039;s argument to Philemon set the stage for its elimination. Luther pointed out that only the Jews were liberated from bondage in Egypt, and argued on that ground (with some support from Paul) that only they were obligated to keep the Sabbath as a day of rest. Even the rabbis agree that Gentiles do not sin when they eat ham or violate one of the other OT laws which God only gave to the Jews.  Paul&#039;s argument about men uncovering their heads during worship and women covering them was not an attempt to create a new law to bind consciences, but precisely a reversal of the requirement  in  the OT that the rule be directly reversed. The historical-grammatical method (the method traditionally used in the Church, before the historical-critical method was invented) has no problem with looking at the internal evidence within Scripture to see what is time conditioned and what is binding for all time.

In the case of women pastors, though, Paul bases his argument on creation. His very argument excludes the possibility the prohibition is time-conditioned. Unfortunately, that means as a practical matter that you can&#039;t have women pastors without directly disobeying what Scripture explicitly says is not only a divine command, but one rooted in creation itself and therefore in force for all time.

One more thought. I would ask for examples of women serving as evangelists in the NT. There is no question that there were prophetesses, but that&#039;s a different issue.  Prophets and prophetesses were not occupants of an office bearing authority; whatever authority they had came from the genuineness of their message.  Prophets were charismatic leaders who arose when they arose, and had the gifts they had. That&#039;s a completely different matter than holding the pastoral office- an office instituted by God and invested with authority of such a nature that by Paul&#039;s argument it is closed to women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that it&#039;s not just a can of worms. It&#039;s Pandora&#039;s box. If you exclude verbal inspiration and decide that some things in the Bible are merely human opinions, then literally everything is up for grabs. Since liteally anything could theoretically be one of those purely human things, nothing in the Bible has any authority unless I want it to. That&#039;s exactly how the ELCA got into the mess it&#039;s in. Once you take that step, there is simply no authority in the Church and no inherent content to the Faith.</p>
<p>Now, this is not to say that there are not some things which the Bible itself makes clear are culturally conditioned. Contrary to the argument we often hear, it nowhere endorses slavery; it merely regulates it- and with Paul&#039;s argument to Philemon set the stage for its elimination. Luther pointed out that only the Jews were liberated from bondage in Egypt, and argued on that ground (with some support from Paul) that only they were obligated to keep the Sabbath as a day of rest. Even the rabbis agree that Gentiles do not sin when they eat ham or violate one of the other OT laws which God only gave to the Jews.  Paul&#039;s argument about men uncovering their heads during worship and women covering them was not an attempt to create a new law to bind consciences, but precisely a reversal of the requirement  in  the OT that the rule be directly reversed. The historical-grammatical method (the method traditionally used in the Church, before the historical-critical method was invented) has no problem with looking at the internal evidence within Scripture to see what is time conditioned and what is binding for all time.</p>
<p>In the case of women pastors, though, Paul bases his argument on creation. His very argument excludes the possibility the prohibition is time-conditioned. Unfortunately, that means as a practical matter that you can&#039;t have women pastors without directly disobeying what Scripture explicitly says is not only a divine command, but one rooted in creation itself and therefore in force for all time.</p>
<p>One more thought. I would ask for examples of women serving as evangelists in the NT. There is no question that there were prophetesses, but that&#039;s a different issue.  Prophets and prophetesses were not occupants of an office bearing authority; whatever authority they had came from the genuineness of their message.  Prophets were charismatic leaders who arose when they arose, and had the gifts they had. That&#039;s a completely different matter than holding the pastoral office- an office instituted by God and invested with authority of such a nature that by Paul&#039;s argument it is closed to women.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: @newlutheran</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-547</link>
		<dc:creator>@newlutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 02:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I didn&#039;t open the can, I just shook a can that was already open. This is what came out. ;-)

For what it&#039;s worth, I feel the same as you, for the most part. I hate to hear people dance all around a topic like this. It&#039;s not about women pastors. It&#039;s really a much more fundamental question about what you believe about the Bible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#039;t open the can, I just shook a can that was already open. This is what came out. <img src='http://jackalopekid.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>For what it&#039;s worth, I feel the same as you, for the most part. I hate to hear people dance all around a topic like this. It&#039;s not about women pastors. It&#039;s really a much more fundamental question about what you believe about the Bible.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jasonthebaldguy</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-546</link>
		<dc:creator>jasonthebaldguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jackalopekid.com/?p=267#comment-546</guid>
		<description>man you are opening a can of worms with that! :)   I think the interesting thing  about this idea is that the bible actually does not sell itself as the ultimate canon of truth. I have been raised to unquestionably believe otherwise...  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
On the subject of women teaching I think Paul was addressing a situation where women were causing problems by creating cross chatter or rabbit chasing. Paul was focusing on a social issue... women were not respecting their husbands and Paul was giving guidance on that subject.  The rule of Thumb is &quot; Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself&quot;  Under that definition as long as women are respecting the God Ordained authority of her husband then she is welcome to exhort and teach others. as far as Pastorship... that is another conversation completely... and depends on quite a few definitions</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>man you are opening a can of worms with that! <img src='http://jackalopekid.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />    I think the interesting thing  about this idea is that the bible actually does not sell itself as the ultimate canon of truth. I have been raised to unquestionably believe otherwise&#8230;  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.<br />
On the subject of women teaching I think Paul was addressing a situation where women were causing problems by creating cross chatter or rabbit chasing. Paul was focusing on a social issue&#8230; women were not respecting their husbands and Paul was giving guidance on that subject.  The rule of Thumb is &quot; Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself&quot;  Under that definition as long as women are respecting the God Ordained authority of her husband then she is welcome to exhort and teach others. as far as Pastorship&#8230; that is another conversation completely&#8230; and depends on quite a few definitions</p>
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		<title>By: @newlutheran</title>
		<link>http://jackalopekid.com/women/comment-page-1/#comment-545</link>
		<dc:creator>@newlutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Really, nobody is discussing the underlying question. At the root of this topic is the question of human influence on the Bible. There are those who believe that every word of the Bible is a direct quote from God, and there are others who believe that the Bible is a collection of historical accounts, written by people who were inspired by God, in order to point to God.

The real question here is:  is it possible that the Bible contains social biases that existed during the time of authorship, editing, and compilation? I&#039;d love to offer an answer but, frankly, I&#039;m still trying to seek one out for myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really, nobody is discussing the underlying question. At the root of this topic is the question of human influence on the Bible. There are those who believe that every word of the Bible is a direct quote from God, and there are others who believe that the Bible is a collection of historical accounts, written by people who were inspired by God, in order to point to God.</p>
<p>The real question here is:  is it possible that the Bible contains social biases that existed during the time of authorship, editing, and compilation? I&#039;d love to offer an answer but, frankly, I&#039;m still trying to seek one out for myself.</p>
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