sin or love

March 8, 2010 in Church with 33 Comments

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I grew up in a church where the pastor said what was up. If something was a sin, he would talk about it and you repented and got right with the Lord right away. But in the past five years or so, I’ve seen a shift from what Christians are saying. Instead of saying what sin is, I’ve heard them say, “Just love everybody like Jesus loves everyone”. I’m trying to figure out if this is a good or bad thing. I mean, I agree with the fact that we should love everyone, no matter what they’ve done. But at the same time, sin is sin, right? Is it a thing where Christians should just love everybody and let God deal with what sin is? Will that person just eventually turn around on their own? The only problem I have with that is, how will those people know something is a sin if we don’t tell them? Will God just tell them one day while walking down the street? This is what I’m pondering.

Should Christians call people out on their sin or just leave it alone?

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scary kid

(re)made

http://www.prudychick.com Prudence

I think if you are to love someone like Jesus loves than you have to point out someone's sin. Jesus just didn't overlook the sin of those around Him. He called them out on it. He forgave when they were repentant. Loving isn't overlooking someone's sin.
My recent post Washing Away Ungratefulness
http://intensedebate.com/people/jasonthebaldguy jasonthebaldguy

Jesus loved people first, then he dealt with their sin… we are called to deal with others in the same way… ironically Jesus butted heads most often with the "self-righteous" Pharasees… he gave them a hard time not because they sinned more.. but because their souls were empty of love. They only loved to be right. The law was given so that we would know how hopeless we are to do good on our own… the purpose of this was not to proliferate a frustrating existence of eternal failure to please God … but more to encourage a passionate longing to love the Father for the Grace that he has poured out by sacrificing his own Son… The issue has never been SIN… SIN is a Symptom of a deeper problem…we are selfish… by loving GOD with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves we become selfless… and we become what GOD desires… Lovers of him… not obedient drones.
My recent post I Can’t Not
http://twitter.com/jackalopekid @jackalopekid

For the record I appreciated the pastor that told me what sin was. For the record
wildcat1998

Love the person not the sin. In God's eyes is lying any worse than adultery or coveting? Sin is sin no matter how you look at it. Sin separates us from God and our goal is to become closer to God. I believe pointing out another person's sin without the love of God will not bring that person any closer to God and it just might make them go away. However, if you do it in love you just might save that person and help them to seek out God's will instead of their own. Just a thought.
jaime solis

I'm one that constantly says we ought to love like Jesus, because really we should. Part of loving isn't just letting someone know of all the rights that God has worked through them, but also pointing out when their flesh had worked through them.

To not let someone know their in sin when its clear, isn't loving like Jesus at all.
http://intensedebate.com/people/jasonthebaldguy jasonthebaldguy

… that the point… loving someone and telling them about their sin … like here http://jasonthebaldguy.com/2010/03/i-cant-not/
My recent post I Can’t Not
http://intensedebate.com/people/Coenraad Coenraad

Loving people means we need to point out the wrongs they do, to their own detriment. The Bible also states clearly that one must repent of your sins, and that is a non-negotiable in my opinion, so like most have said, to love like Jesus, is to rebuke like Jesus rebuked as well.
http://garycarpenter.posterous.com/ Gary C

I believe that we can't judge a nonbeliever by the Bible, they aren't reading it. I do believe that we are to , in love, hold believer's accountable to the Bible and call sin what it is.

Love the sinner first with Christ's love. When we do that, they will be willing to listen to our witness, and God's judgement.

I find that when you get down to the root of unbelief, for most, it's a belief that they aren't good enough, and don't deserve God's love. When it explained the NONE of us do, and his love is demonstrated in our actions, the change of heart will follow.

Most people don't need to be told what sin is.
My recent post Social Media Boot Camp for Pastors
http://twitter.com/jackalopekid @jackalopekid

agreed
http://intensedebate.com/people/jasonthebaldguy jasonthebaldguy

you hit the nail on the head! the world will be judged by God… its not our job to point out their sin… but it is our job to hold our brothers in christ accountable in love!!!
Pat

Love like Jesus loved. Hmm. I remember Him (well, according to Scripture) looking into Peter's eyes and saying "Get behind me, Satan!" Was that loving? Indeed it was. If you "love" someone, that means you need to be willing to get in their grill when they're messing up – and you'll still love them if they don't change their behavior immediately. The problem we tend to have is we try to manage the situation for God. It's our job to call sin, "SIN," "LOVE" like Jesus would, but let "JESUS" change hearts through the Holy Spirit.
j_denson

First off…using the word judge isn't appropriate. I don't judge what's sin and what's not…the bible does. How can you say you have the love of Christ and not be willing to tell someone they are in sin, which leads to death? Wait till their saved? They'll get saved if we're really nice guys? What are they getting saved from if you don't let them know they are dying?

Ezekiel 3:18 If I say to the wicked, ‘You are going to die,’ and you don’t sound the alarm warning them that it’s a matter of life or death, they will die and it will be your fault. I’ll hold you responsible.19 But if you warn the wicked and they keep right on sinning anyway, they’ll most certainly die for their sin, but you won’t die. You’ll have saved your life.

We don't have a choice in it…LOVE is the key to telling the truth! We must love them…but we MUST tell them the truth! We don't damn and condemn…we love. and because we love we speak truth…because their lives and souls are the most important thing in the world to us!
Peacekpg1

Speaking the word in love, with grace, seasoned with salt is good! I so appreciate the times in my life when I've needed to hear, what might appear to some, a "hard" word. However, I believe people recognize a compassionate and loving person, even when they don't care to always hear what they say. Reminds me of children. They really want parents who will show them right from wrong. But they also need parents who will show them they are loved. Having one with out the other doesn't work. Same in the Body of Christ.
http://intensedebate.com/people/lightchild Grant Jenkins

Good stuff, man. I've been thinking along a lot of similar themes lately. I grew up in a very "call it out" environment, but standing on this side of that experience, I know I grew up among a lot of religious undiscipled disciples. The possible danger of just anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" is that you have a bunch of spiritual people who dig Jesus but have their own divided hearts to deal with, which often results in the "calling out" of a lot of personal convictions and vices rather than actual sin. I think the barometer of how you can approach this is how you feel in your heart when you have the opportunity to confront someone regarding sin you see in their life. If you feel in your heart that you are better than that person because you don't do "x", then you should probably shut up, sit down and deal with the pride in your heart before you try to correct anyone.
My recent post Beautiful Things
http://www.iheartbrad.com Brad Gross

If we only love and never talk about sin, what's with all this talk about accountability you hear people talking about? I would find it somewhat ridiculous to say, let's lose accountability and just love.

Sin has become a bad word, like Christian, so we don't mention it anymore.

I've never understood this. I want accountability. I want the hard conversations. I want someone to call out my sins when I'm hiding them. And through that, I want to be free from the sin that just keeps me from knowing God.

Good post man, I hope the conversation continues!
http://twitter.com/jackalopekid @jackalopekid

thanks man. this actually comes after me saying something and another Christian telling me I shouldn't say something to offend a person in that certain sin. They said it might turn them in the wrong direction and become bitter towards Christians. We should just love them was their point. This really got me to thinkin.
peacekpg1

I must add that, when "pointing out someone's sin", God's wisdom is needed. Look at how Jesus dealt with some sinners in the bible. Different strokes for different folks. Think about it: the woman caught in adultery about to be stoned, Paul (before his conversion), Peter (the get behind me Satan, event mentioned above), Pharisees, buyers & sellers in the temple, the Samaritan woman, Zacchaeus, etc., etc.
http://intensedebate.com/people/pa3cia pa3cia

2 Timothy 3:16:17 (Amplified Bible)

16Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action) 17So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work.

we must know the balance of grace & holiness.

we must know how to speak the TRUTH in LOVE.
j_Denson

I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on "the balance of holiness and grace." You feel the two counter each other, thus having the possibility of balance between them?
http://twitter.com/rgdecastro @rgdecastro

love is obedience.
sin is disobedience.
http://www.iheartbrad.com Brad

Man, I'm with you, I would've said something. If you were doing something and I didn't call you out, how can I say I really love you? I love you so much to let you continue in your sin? For what? So that grace can abound? Paul called entire churches out! LOL!
http://twitter.com/bcrab @bcrab

Wow. Lots of comments on this one!

IMHO, the Spirit does a much better job at convicting people and causing them to change than we do.
It's not anger or accusations but "kindness that leads to repentance."

Does never 'sinning' ensure that I will go to heaven? Or will I still go to heaven whether I sin or not? Where is the balance?
Are some sins ok and others not? Is there a sin that will keep me out of Heaven?
http://www.mypurplebutterfly.net Butterfly

When a person committs a sin doesn't define who they are, its an act they committ, therefore I believe that everyone can repent as you said from anything. And yes, loving unconditionally is a very hard thing to do, but if you have heart you can accomplish love in all forms even for the sinners.
My recent post Leading Lady
http://twitter.com/jackalopekid @jackalopekid

Good conversation here folks
http://intensedebate.com/people/aboynamedtracy aboynamedtracy

That's a great question! I've been dealing with the same thing. I find it very interesting the way Jesus handles people. He never confronts anyone other than the religious people and when he talks to "sinners" or heals them he often said to "go and sin no more." but never really tells them what their sin is. Does he assume they already know? Does his presence itself convict people? Now, how to we do that? I dunno!
My recent post My Birthday Wish List
http://twitter.com/jackalopekid @jackalopekid

good questions m an. now I'm thinking more
http://kevinowens4.posterous.com Kevin Owens

Sorry I'm late to the party on this one, but I am passionate about the subject. A question I always pose to Christians is, "Will your words and/or actions more likely lead unbelievers toward Christ or away from Him?" I think today's version of "Pharisees" who take apparent joy in pointing out others' "sin" (in or outside of the church) have done far more harm to the Kingdom of God than any help they might have been. Of course there are consequences for sin and unbelievers need to made aware of those. But I believe Christians are called, and expected, to share the good news of the gospel. And I don't believe there is any method that works better than living a life that pleases God. It opens so many doors to be able to share Christ's love with others. When a relationship of trust and love is built, that then opens the door for discussions of sin and consequences without the risk of pushing them away from God. I trust God to do the rest.
My recent post WWYD – What Would You Do?
http://intensedebate.com/people/pa3cia pa3cia

sorry..i didnt see this reply in my email till now.

i dont feel like the two counter each other. i dont think Jesus ever meant for the both to counter each other. the tendency of us human beings though, is to swing to an extreme side of the pendulum.

some rely on grace alone and therefor say it's okay to do everything coz God will forgive you anyway…. not realizing that we do deal with a Holy God who commands us to be holy.

and some are waaaay legalistic and have no grace…. forgetting all that they've been forgiven from.

Jesus is the perfect example of balancing grace and holiness. when he met the adulterer, He called her out on her sins (speaking the truth in love), extended mercy and grace (by not stoning her), but also told her to "go and sin no more" (which is making an emphasis on holiness).

i hope im making sense =/
http://twitter.com/jackalopekid @jackalopekid

a great thing to keep in mind. I hope they will lead others toward Him
http://intensedebate.com/profiles/aaronstrongarm Aaron Armstrong

Prudence is wise and took the words right out of my mouth.
My recent post Receiving Grace upon Grace – Introducing our New Daughter
Jim

God is love and everything we do is to glorify Him so, if what you do is not done in love it is wrong and if it’s not done in faith it’s a sin. “If you know to do good and don’t do it, it’s a sin.”
So, if you want to love like Jesus did, walk it don’t talk it!
Consumed by Zeal

If you want to love properly as Jesus did, he told the truth and sometimes the truth was hard to swallow. He taught about the dangers of sin and how we are not to walk in those ways any longer. He explained the truth of God’s standards and corrected the wrong teachings or the Pharisees. Sometimes our society and even churches can put up with sin under the statements of “don’t judge or you too will be judged”. But the truth of the matter is that the same way our physicial body responds with a fever and an increase in the production of white blood cells to destroy a foreign body that will affect it negatively, the church is to be the body of Christ and point out what is wrong and damaging to the body of Christ so that sin does not spread. We see the example of Paul where he even implys that we are to judge those in the church to keep them in line. The one living in sin (and still calling himself a brother) is not to even be associated with (obviously unless he repents) “I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an R199 idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler–not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within {the church?} But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. ” 1 Cor. 5:11. If we are to be like Jesus we need to encourage the good and call out/rebuke the evil.

Revelations 3:14 God himself says this, “I correct and discipline those whom I love, so be serious and repent!”

Love is not being “nice” its doing what is in the better interest of another. If correcting and helping someone out of a sinful situation will help their relationship with the Lord (and it will!) then that is the proper way of loving that person.
Consumed by Zeal

“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me;…” John 14:21
“Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;…” John 14:23

” but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.” 1Cor 8:3

“”Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven {will enter.} “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘**I never knew you**; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’” Matthew 7:21

“For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.” Hebrews 10:26-27

Point I’m trying to make here is that to love God you have to obey his commands. By obeying his commands/loving God you are not sinning or being “lawless”. Its those that continue sinning or “practice lawlessness” that he tells to depart from Him. Realize He is speaking to those that supposedly did things in the name of God- yet were living lawlessly or not following his “laws”/commands. He also says to those “I never knew you”. The one that loves (or obeys) God is known by God. The one who does not obey and therefore does not love God is NOT known by God and told to depart. Its hard to be in “heaven” when God is telling you to get away. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between accidently sinning and WILLFULLY sinning. God knows we will fail from time to time (and feel horrible about it) or Jesus would not have taught to pray saying “And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors”.

Willfully sinning is going against what you know to be right inspite of knowing that it is disobedience to God and unacceptable to Him- its not loving God. Those that willingly sin can have “terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES”— They are called adversaries or enemies of God.

James 4:1-4 describes sinful behavior and how the world behaves in this way. To practice the same things the world practices is like befriending the world. When we befriend the world by practicing the same things we become an enemy to God. “What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? You lust and do not have; {so} you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; {so} you fight and quarrel. You do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend {it} on your pleasures. You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.”

Jesus Commands us to Love the Lord our God with ALL our mind, soul, body and strength. So with ALL our efforts we are to obey God’s commands (to obey Him is to love Him). We are not to have the attitude of “how little do I have to do to get into heaven”. We should be so grateful for Christ’s sacrifice that we gladly turn away from the world’s ways and pursue a holy life that mirrors Christ and in that way devote ourselves to obedience that shows God we love Him and are no longer His enemy.

If there is anything bothering your conscience, like you failed God’s standard, there should be repentance. That nagging feeling is letting you know that you acted like an enemy against God in some way.

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