Alone

December 5, 2009 in marriage with 58 Comments

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Situation: I’m married. The lady offering to give me a car ride home because Jasmine dropped me off is married. The mind starts going…I probably shouldn’t be alone with another married woman, but then again I didn’t think Jasmine would take this long. Do you take the car ride or wait on your wife (who knows how long she could take)? Pretty much, should you ever be alone with the opposite sex when married?

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http://royeglass.com Roye Glass

I wait for another ride. There’s too much at stake for everyone to take a chance for something to happen, feelings to be sparked, and for others to say something. A persons reputation can be hurt just by the appearance. I think it was Billy Graham that never met with his secretary alone (something like that… I need to tetras the book.)
Derek

I would think it would be fine. As long as you have told your wife
http://blog.rrchapman.us Bob Chapman

Get a grip, man. If your flesh is that weak that you can’t take a car ride home without violating her, how do you hold a job down?

Everyone has thoughts. Jesus knows, per Sermon on the Mount. Learn to live in grace, not law. You can’t do it by law.
http://twitter.com/lilbytes Marianne

You're kidding, right? Call your wife. Ask her if it's okay to take Jasmine up on her offer. If she says yes, go. If she says no, wait. Simple.
Karen

I would say don't do. Although as innocent as it is, to others that might see you it could look like something else. I would say, never put yourself in the situation where you would even have to explain to anyone.
http://williamlehman.net William Lehman

"Avoid all appearances of evil."
I'd wait for another ride or begin walking. Even if your wife knows, does her husband? Even if your motives are pure, do you really know this lady's motives or what has been going on between her and her husband? This is too open-ended, and there is too much room for doubt. It may not even be on your end if you know where you stand and your wife knows and doesn't have a problem with it.
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

hers the deal. i just wanted to see how many people out there would be alone with opposite sex when married. I've seen both– some people just dont even want the appearance and others could care less. im more on dont want the appearance that im even alone with them.
http://twitter.com/lilbytes Marianne

WOW! All the worry over appearances. I don't think of it that way. If anything, it's a trust issue. As far as that goes, hubby and I have one rule: Never do anything alone that we wouldn't do in front of one another. We always ask ourselves "Would I do this if he/she were in the same room?". Maybe I'm more naïve than I thought.

"Oooh! It's the pastor getting a ride from some woman. They must committing some sin. I have got to tell _____ about this!" when I'm just thinking "Oh look. How nice to see the out and about." or "I bet he got stuck somewhere. Good thing someone was able to offer him a ride."
http://twitter.com/lilbytes Marianne

And oops. Sorry about getting Jasmine's name in there and then leaving out "pastor" in the other post. You know what I meant. Maybe I should start proofing what I write before I submit, eh? lol
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

nope not kidding
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

i agree
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

right there with ya
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

yep. i read that too. someone else used that in a sermon one time. he always had someone present with him even when just talking to the opposite sex. id rather be too safe
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

no problem
Sarah S.

I more or less see it as a respect issue, not a turn-or-burn, heaven-or-hell issue. I applaud you for erring on the side of caution out of respect for Jas. I can tell you that I would have somewhat of a problem with my fiance alone with another woman whatever the context, and we're not even married yet. He's made it a point to not be alone with another woman, however innocent of a situation, because he loves and respects me and wants to make that clear to others. I know your heart, bro–you'd never be unfaithful to Jas. But as a woman, I think more men need to be mindful of their wives emotions and feelings. Don't even make room for one shred of doubt in her mind that you will always put her above all others (only second to Jesus). Thanks for taking the higher road, bro.
http://flowerdust.net anne jackson

I respect other people's boundaries they have drawn, but to me (or my husband) this wouldn't be a big deal. Both of our careers often have us in public places, or riding in cars with people of the opposite sex. We talk about it. We talk about everything. And I would encourage people to take a look at the context of the verse about avoiding evil appearances. It's one we have manipulated into a protestant, and completely American POV.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37402335 Michael Waldorf

I'd talk with your wife about the situation to see how she feels about it. A ride home is innocent enough.
lollimom

As a 30 yr social worker, I think we should have compassion on one another about this subject, while we seek greater understanding of one another. I believe this so strongly because our values are formed not only by the Holy Spirit, but also by our past. For example, if our parents' marriage ended in divorce due to unfaithfulness, we understandably want to protect our own home from this type of attack. The church should be joining with such families to pray for their marriages to be strengthened. But such support requires the church to be more transparent, vulnerable, accountable and honest about their own temptations. In other words, we would have to stop denying that we can fall, as well as the denial of just how such a fall occurs. (Word says that a man’s heart is deceitful above all things.)
lollimom

On the other hand, those who have never experienced the hell of watching their parents murder their marriage, aka divorce (BTW, I am divorced and remarried – so am speaking about myself only), those folks may not have the same sensitivity to this issue, so “since it's America, believe what you want. He does not condemn you, nor do I."
And about accountability to others, this child of the 70's wishes it weren't so, but we all are accountable to others, and ministry even more so. The only reason I can (at times) be this transparent, is not because I care what others think, but because I DON'T care what any one thinks but HIM, as HE is the only one who can save me. I mean, as much as I love my family and friends, they can not get me to heaven, so your opinions are really going to have to take a back seat.
lollimom

And you are right, “the Billy Graham evangelistic team pledged TO EACH OTHER that they would exercise extreme care to avoid even the appearance of any sexual impropriety (from that point on, Graham made it a point NOT to travel, meet or eat alone with any woman other than his wife Ruth)."
On that same premise, when we were at the Brownsville Revival, the pastoral staff would only allow men to counsel men and women to counsel women, because confiding in each other causes a greater vulnerability to that person.
You wonder what all this has to do with a car ride? It has already been mentioned that the status of the other person's marriage was not known, so a simple conversation in the car could begin the sharing of such confidences that leaves the feeling of vulnerability. And for many women, it is not the visual that brings sexual temptation; it is communication and listening, so that she feels valued and special.
http://bryanallain.com bryan a

every couple needs to talk about this issue and come to a decision together based on their past and all that. it's not a grace/law thing, it's a "i want to be wise" and "i want to honor my wife/husband" thing. for some that will mean the car rides arent an issue, for others they will be.
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

good point
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

thanks for stopping by anne. what do u think the "evil appearances" are that Paul is talking about? Do u believe it is that person's opinion as to what is evil or does it actually have to be evil and not just appear to be evil to others? make sense?
lollimom

In fact, it was Steve Hill at the Brownsville Revival that said we should not be seeing how close to the fire we can get and not be burned. Instead, we should be seeing how far away from the fire we can live. So, Adam, you have shown great wisdom, and that was the right decision for you and Jasmine…and Sarah, ditto for Brian and you, as you all have decided that you will lessen the power of this temptation in your life, by not putting yourself in unnecessary situations. (BTW, since you are the only ones who have to live with your decisions, isn't is great that everyone else can just believe whatever they want, since they are not married to you.? What a great country!) I've heard you both say that Jasmine and Brian are your best friends and that you can tell them anything. Keep that quality in your marriage, and you've got a lifetime of blessing ahead!
Wildcat1998

I agree with Bryan that each couple will need to talk this issue through. Everyone has their own degree of comfort with having their spouse, ride, talk, call, counsel etc. the opposite sex. Here's the problem you might be totally innocent in thinking this is just a ride home while the other person may be attracted to you and your acceptance gives them the go ahead to keep asking for more time with you by offering to do other things in the future. I've seen it many times in work environments. On the other hand when I married my spouse knew that I had more guy friends than girl friends and he after getting to know everyone he realize that I wasn't attracted to these guys and they were not attracted to me we were just friends and they became his friends. After over 30 years the situation is still the same. Communication and resolution don't leave home without it.
http://twitter.com/digitalmcgrath @digitalmcgrath

As a rule, I always make it a point never to be alone with a woman. Even though I know nothing would happen, it only takes one person seeing you with someone of the opposite sex for rumors to begin.
Jonathan Pearson

I don’t think anyone’s mentioned the fact of the woman making accusations later. It’s something that I’m always cautious of being in student ministry. Accusations ruin a lot of lives, even if that accusation is false.
http://www.nbc13.com LindaNBC13HD

I wonder what Tiger would say? Maybe he should have been included on a discussion like this. Most men wouldn’t think twice. It gives me hope that some do… Thanks for that!
http://intensedebate.com/people/dwfaust dwfaust

It's not about appearances. It's about temptation – and avoiding it. I have seen this situation lead to devastating results too many times. It starts innocently, but the temptation is too great.

Most definitely, I would NOT do it. I'd wait for my wife, instead.
bcrab

I suppose if you know that getting in the car with a woman will mean you’ll end up getting jiggy with it, then you probably shouldn’t get in the car.
But then I would also say that if that is the case then you have more issues than just needing a ride home and maybe you should never leave your house. And never talk to a woman because I could only imagine what might happen if you started doing that!

Would it be different if you/she was single? What if it was a guy? He could be gay? Think of the rumors!

Show me one situation where Jesus said to His disciples, “Actually guys, that’s gonna start some crazy rumors that will totally undermine my ministry and I am not ready to cope with that! We’d better steer clear of that prostitute/tax collector/leper…”

Me? I’d get in the car.
seth

This is a tough one.. I mean, people say that appearances are everything. So I guess if it were me I would pass and wait if I had the option.
http://intensedebate.com/people/dwfaust dwfaust

After having seen up close and personally a friend's marriage fail for infidelity, I'd have to say that I would not even consider taking a ride from another woman alone. In my friend's situation, the couples were close friends, and over the years, my friend and his wife's friend began inching closer and closer to that line. One day they crossed it, and two families and five children were devastated.

I can't / won't tell anyone else how to live, but "as for me and my house", it would not happen. Period.

Aside from avoiding the appearance of evil, don't underestimate the enemy and don't overestimate your ability to resist temptation.
http://intensedebate.com/people/leegallison leegallison

No brainer. Don't even go there – if its gray to you, it will be "grayer" to someone else……1 Corinthians 8:9
"Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak"
Makeda

As someone who accepted a ride from a married member of the opposite sex that later tuned into an affair, I would definitely say don't do it. No one wakes up one day saying today is a good day to cheat on my spouse. It starts with something as innocent as accepting a ride and before you know it you have devastated your spouse and your family. The issue for me is not an appearance thing, it is the temptation that potentially exists. It's a bad idea no matter how you slice it or dice it (speaking from experience on this one).
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

with ya brother
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

amen
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

amen. i dont even want to put myself there
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

yep they sure do. great point
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

no prob
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

there ya go
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

wow. thanks for being so open and willing to share that. i know that helped someone out there
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

i guess its up to each individual. but i get ur point too
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

So, after reading all the comments here, I definitely realize each person is definitely different with their convictions. A totally different blog post there
http://twitter.com/bcrab @bcrab

It's interesting how people have more faith in sin's ability to ruin lives than the Spirit's ability to empower, protect and lead.

I wonder what the church would be like if we all stopped thinking about our potential to sin and started thinking about our potential to live Spirit-empowered and anointed lives!
http://intensedebate.com/people/klreed189 Kyle Reed

This is such a tough one. I think the reason it is tough is because you hear people talk about it so then when the situation presents itself it really becomes a bigger deal then what it could be. I know for me when I see someone riding with the opposite sex and I know that they are not married to each other (Obviously I know who they are) I start to wonder why they are in the car together.

For me I am not married so this has never presented itself as a situation. But when i was in student ministry there were times where I would be at the house I was staying at and students would come over to hang out with the kid that lived there and I would be watching TV upstairs and a girl that was a senior in high school would come up there and sit down and watch with me. I immediately knew that I had to do something, because it could be seen as wrong or inappropriate even though there was nothing there at all.

It is just a slippery slope conversation that seems to have no answer.
http://intensedebate.com/people/dwfaust dwfaust

It's not necessarily about the flesh being "that weak" as much as it is entertaining temptation.
lollimom

Thank you so much Makeda for sharing earlier, and thank you Adam for asking questions that make us think! Addressing some of what has been discussed here, an article was on the MSNBC Lifestyle site, titled "Emotional Affairs 101" by Dr. Gail Saltz, Psychiatrist. Excerpts included, "…sharing intimate thoughts with another man…would your husband have a problem with that? …Many people convince themselves that as long as there's no sex, it's not an affair. But it is. An affair really has to do with …the amount of emotional energy that you put into the other person and are no longer giving your partner….Those involved in an emotional affair are often in denial. They don't think they're having an affair at all. The denial keeps them guilt-free, and they feel they don't have to give it up. They tell themselves, "It's just a friendship."…. interesting. Anyway, we simply don't know about another person's thoughts, intent or motivation. In fact, when in denial, we may not even know our own.
http://intensedebate.com/people/jasonthebaldguy jasonthebaldguy

I have to say that as a rule I generally make the choice to avoid being in a situation where I am alone with the opposite sex… this is more out of a healthy respect for the "possibility of temptation" you never know what the other person is thinking! I could care less about appearances… avoiding the appearance of evil has more to do with how you live your life daily… than it does with PR if you are above reproach then even if something appears evil people will give you the benefit of the doubt.
That being said… as men… we need to be men and learn how to handle ourselves around women! Love your wife… treat all other women as sisters… there is a great deal to gain from being able to have healthy relationships with the opposite sex without the tension of sexuality being constantly in your mind.
http://intensedebate.com/people/jasonthebaldguy jasonthebaldguy

AMEN!! great discernment… we should live in strength and honor! the imagination of defeat is it's very birth!
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

great thoughts on this man
http://intensedebate.com/people/jackalopekid jackalopekid

very true
http://intensedebate.com/people/jasonthebaldguy jasonthebaldguy

I have say… these days… we are not so much men as men used to be… I would love to believe that more men are capable of living so well under grace… but the the truth is that society has stripped many of the strengths of manhood away… and left us to be ruled by petty lusts and fears. Our churches are full of believers that cannot live in strength because they are only taught to run away… never to stand and fight.
The average christian man these days… spends as much as 2-8 hours a day being carnal… playing video games, surfing the internet, watching TV. Rather than spending time meditating on spiritual things. With such a level of commitment… it is much safer to completely avoid a potential situation where temptation "could" occur.
Britt Trotman

So if a car ride is as big as this…then what do you think about a married man sharing the same small office with a single girl at work? And the workplace is a church.

Believe me, I’ve had to pray hard about this one. I would love to know some thoughts, even though I am 56th comment.
http://twitter.com/davidaknapp David

This post sounds like the thoughts that run through our head. I think if we have to ask the question then we already know that answer is no.

I heard that Billy Graham would get off an elevator if he was the only one on it and a woman got on with him. Talk about integrity.
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